above the line

[Rallynavigator]

The marking of pacenotes above the line as I call it seems to work for me. I find that at times ( not that often ) I can forget to call the  bends / corners as fast as I should. Using a high lighter brings the commands forward of the page.

Is there a technique that you use?? and WHY??

[expat]

I guess you are talking about underlining notes that have to be read together. That is a common approach because, by and large, it works. It is a bit limited though.

I try to write my notes so that any notes that have to be read together are on the same line to avoid any tendency to stop reading at the end of the line. (Stopping there is stupid but it is something I did occasionally when I started).

Also line breaks can be ambiguous. For example, suppose at the end of a line you have Eary-Right Easy-Left (using whatever shorthand you note system you prefer). These are underlined so you know to read them together. Then the next line starts with Medium-Right Square-Left. Again, these are underlined so you know to read them together. But what about the Easy-Left and Medium-Right? Should they be read together? To clarify this, if I need to read them together I use a double-underline and continue it to the edge of the page. That way I know if there should be a pause at the end of a line or whether I should just keep on reading.

Oh, and another way I try to avoid problems with line breaks is to use an A4 book for my notes, in landscape orientation. I don't often write notes to the full page width, but I have space available so I can keep notes on the same line if I want to.

Page breaks are another issue, only more so because you don't have a clue what is over the page. I try to start a new page on a long straight so I have time to turn over. I don't want to have to turn the page 30 metres before a hidden hairpin! If I don't get this right I might put "PTOQ" at the end of the page to remind myself to turn over quickly.

Another issue is when things should be read "almost together". A long sequence of bends may be close enough together that the notes need to be delivered continuously, but maybe this will be too much for the driver to take in, or you need a short pause but not much of a pause mid-sequence. In such cases I use a dotted rather than a solid underline between two notes. At least I know I can take a breath at that point!

If there is a sudden change of pace from very fast with reasonable straights to a tricky sequence, that is an easy place to be caught out and not read the notes quickly enough. It is easy to get into a flow and when the rhythm changes you need to know about it in advance to change the pace of your reading. In such places I write very lightly but in big letters QUICKLY just above the notes & before the place where the pace changes. This is a note just for me, to get my act together; I don't read this to the driver.

I make my notes in pencil. After the recce I go through and overwrite some notes with a thick black felt pen. This is for notes tighter than a certain threshold value. I also overwrite all cautions with a thick red felt pen. This means I am aware of tight or tricky places before I actually read the note. When I first started reading notes I found I had no concept of what was coming up after the note I was actually reading, whereas when reading a map I had some sort of read-ahead buffer in my head so that I knew when we were approaching something special. I started this marking of my notes to try to recreate that and it works for me, especially when combined with varied spacing. On fast roads with long straights and few corners I have a lot of white space between notes. In sequences of corners where notes must be delivered more rapidly I use much less space between notes. Again this gives me an impression of the notes coming up without having to read them. If the notes ahead look busy then the road ahead will be busy and I need to be on the ball.

At the other end of the scale there can also be a problem of reading notes too quickly. Perhaps a corner is longer than normal or the driver has noted it in a way that isn't quite how I would have done it, so that it is easy to read the next note too early. I use a comma to remind myself to wait here.

Is this the sort of information you were looking for?

[Rallynavigator]

Yes that is what I meant. I will be able to give a more detailed response this evening. It would be nice to see a example of the notes you use compared to the "safety notes " I purchase for each event. 

[expat]

OK, here (I hope) is a page of notes that shows a lot of different things. Points of interest are:

• I use blue for notes (usually landmarks) that are just for my benefit and not to be called to the driver.
• We originally noted the bend at the end of the first line as a RIGHT-FLAT-MINUS but on our first run through the stage we changed that to be RIGHT-FLAT with a SMALL CUT.
• The stones in the notes are in the verges, not on the road. It warns the driver of a puncture risk (or worse) if he cuts the corner or runs wide.
• At the end of line 3 I need to start reading early, and keep reading. The 150 metres must be read together with the RIGHT-FLAT-MINUS and LEFT-K-LONG on line 4.
• Distances below 100m are abbreviated in these notes, so we use 1, 3, 5 and 7 rather than 10, 30, 50 and 70. This is a carry-over from the driver's native language, in which the words for these distances are too long to call; we would cover the distance before I told him what followed.

The use of whitespace on this page is not very good, but it was difficult to quickly find a page that shows everything I mentioned earlier. If anything is not clear I can try to explain.

[Rallynavigator]

Due to copyright I have not yet been given permission to display the notes as intended. Following an email this evening this should be granted prior to the weekend. I hope to put 2 pages of the same event from 2 consecutive years. One using 1-6 (6 fastest) and 1-9 (9 slowest). Looking at them there appears to be more information on the later for the co driver to interpret .

There is a lot more information on the notes expat than I thought. The way you distinguish the information you need to that of what the driver needs is very good with the colour coding. I have learnt that to much information can be just as negative as not enough. so at what point does it become necessary to stop making the notes the way you do ( information that is )

The sequence stated on line 3 -4 is similar almost identical to that of the safety notes but not when it comes to over the line. It is rare to see this format used if the direction is continuous if this makes sense. They use a separate line if this will not fit.
The interpretation of the stage I would presume takes the faster connotation leaning to the cautious side of the bend / speed / distance. 

The recce speed is this determined by the organisers 40-45k maybe?
Do you use a trip for distances?
Who has the larger input on the recce yourself or the driver?
When I look at the DVD that can be purchased ( my recce ) I look at it from the drivers point of view if any correction's are to be made . What would I for example as a driver be wanting to know in relation to how the notes have been written . Good or Bad idea?

[expat]

The way notes are written is down to me. Content is down to the driver. The only content I am responsible for is the notes to myself. The driver may not even know these exist.

Adding too many notes to myself has never been an issue. I could add more than I do.

Having too much driver info can be a problem, especially with novice drivers. It can be too much to read out, or too much for the driver to take in, or more than the driver can use. Also with more information to read there is less scope for the co-driver to help the driver by changing the timing of the calls. The best defense against all this is experience, but vocabulary is also important. Plan how to get maximum info into minimum words. Also write very clearly so you can read fluently at speed.

The notes I posted don't really have much information. There can be a lot more about braking points, lines, where to cut (or not), etc.

Recce speed limits are set by the organisers. On the events I do 80 KPH is common, less in places.

I have rarely used a trip on recces. Most drivers judge distance by eye.

I don't know much about bought notes & DVDs so it would be better for someone else to comment on that.

[Rallynavigator]

The notes here are 1-9 ( 9 slowest ) Plains 2013 Stage 1

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The notes here are 1-6 ( 6 fastest ) Plains 2012 Stage 1

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Here are two different note systems , but both on the same rally and the same stage.

The marking of pacenotes above the line as I call it seems to work for me. I find that at times ( not that often ) I can forget to call the bends / corners as fast as I should. Using a high lighter brings the commands forward of the page

As previously stated "above the line " for those of you that may not have understood or even seen or used pace notes before is everything above the hightlighted double line as seen in the images.These are calls that come in quick consession or contain short distances. As you can see the information placed on the two types have changed over 12 months.
Line 4 as you can see has the double caution removed on the first call, there is also a care placed on the 5L and in 2012 I just placed a "slowing " above the call.

There is no diffrence in the color I use for the marking unlike "expat" who has his own system. I do however try to make the "cautions" as bright as I can therefore defining the call. I have at times also hightlighted the junction number / distance in and distance remaining seen in the rectangular boxes. This is a fast refrence for myself incase of a puncture to determine do we stop or carry on.

There is another diffrence that you may see at the bottom of the second image on the right corner. The rectangular box states the proceding corner prior to turning the page in this case Sm C 6R 4L 6R into

From this years event you can see the notes in action to give you some idea of how these work. There was a minor confusion on the first 1.34 miles with confusion as to were the layby was. The call I feltwasright but minor doubt was placed.  Should I have called "past layby " on this straight. There is also a quite scarymoment as the car eactsdiffrent to that of the driver around 8 min in to the video.

Gartheiniog stage 5 Plains 2013

[expat]

May 23, 2013 23:11:05 GMT Rallynavigator said:

Here are two different note systems , but both on the same rally and the same stage.

Thanks for posting those. Interesting.

These are calls that come in quick consession or contain short distances.

Neither of those is sufficient for me to call two notes together; it depends on what the notes are. For example, I will always call "FLAT RIGHT INTO HAIRPIN LEFT" together, because the driver really needs to know about the hairpin left as he approaches the flat right. If the order of these is reversed, so it is hairpin left into flat right, I will call the hairpin first, without the flat right. This allows the driver to take in the information about the hairpin and drive accordingly. He doesn't need to know about the flat right till much later, so I don't give him the information too early and expect him to remember it. Also I have found that in times of stress the driver is most likely to remember the last note in a sequence, so let that be the hairpin left, not the flat right.

I have at times also hightlighted the junction number / distance in and distance remaining seen in the rectangular boxes. This is a fast refrence for myself incase of a puncture to determine do we stop or carry on.

It is great that you have that info included in the notes, especially if the rally car doesn't have a trip meter. In theory I put that in my notes but it doesn't always happen. My regular driver does not put junctions in the notes, so a junction is just called as a corner. I do almost always note (just for me) where the junctions are but I don't always go through later to transfer the distance information from the road book. That is something I could improve. Personally I wouldn't highlight that data.

The line break before the last line is a good example of why I double-underline where the underlining should continue over the line break. Without that you don't know that you need to continue reading onto the last line until you have read and understood the last line, whereas I know I need to continue reading the next note before I know what that note is.

I'll take a look at the video later.

[expat]

May 23, 2013 23:11:05 GMT Rallynavigator said:

From this years event you can see the notes in action to give you some idea of how these work. There was a minor confusion on the first 1.34 miles with confusion as to were the layby was. The call I feltwasright but minor doubt was placed.  Should I have called "past layby " on this straight.

I think you called the layby in the correct place. What I think is the layby is the wider area on the right immediately before the logs 49 to 50 seconds into the video. The crest by the logs you can see at that time is the one in the notes where you must be in the middle. Just after that I think the driver was wrong to say you had not yet passed the layby. What he thinks is the layby, at 1 minute 11 seconds into the video, is really the junction that is mentioned in the notes, where you should stay in the middle over the bump. This is a potentially serious misunderstanding because it means you are 400 metres further than you think you are, approaching a sequence of ever tighter corners.

The obvious question is what you could have done about this. Perhaps you could have had the courage of your convictions and said you had passed the layby, but that assumes you were confident of how the notes matched the road and where you were in the notes. I guess you weren't that confident and/or the driver was more experienced and you accepted his view. Even though he is wrong the driver does sound convincing when he says you have not yet passed the layby.

From the layby your exact position was in doubt, and you should have been looking for a definite landmark to re-orientate yourself. The 400 m "straight" is one possibility and also you should also have been looking for the junction. The junction is arrowed - you can see the arrow at 1:08 in the video - so at that point you could have been confidently on the notes and corrected the driver when he thought the junction was the layby. Of course that is a lot easier from my office chair than in your co-driver's seat.

[Rallynavigator]

Thank you for your comments Expat honest as usual. Lets look at another scenario from what Expat originally said

I use blue for notes (usually landmarks) that are just for my benefit and not to be called to the driver

Looking at the notes again was I right in calling the layby or was it a "landmark" that should have been used for my benefit. Was there any need for the driver to know this?

[expat]

In my world that is purely a decision for the driver, who decides what s/he wants called. Anything else is just for me, but then I make the notes and we have a recce where the driver specifies exactly what I should call.

Things are a little different in your world where you are using bought notes. I don't know a lot about that so I am not the best person to comment. I will anyway. My understanding is that you don't see the stages before driving them at speed. In this scenario the driver can only give general rules about what you should call. A driver may want everything called, or nothing "extra" called, or may want landmarks but not junctions or whatever. Those rules may sound vague but they are at least definite and easy to comply with. The problem is that many drivers will give a wishy-washy rule like "call all junctions but only call landmarks if you think they are important" which puts the onus on you to decide.

With no definite guidance from the driver and not knowing the stage I would probably have called the layby. You could argue that in this case calling the layby only caused confusion and it would be better not to have called it. The flip side is that the driver wasn't completely matching the notes to the road and the confusion over the layby at least raised that issue giving you both the chance to do something about it.

It is a valid question, but I think there is no right or wrong answer.

[expat]

One other point. Whether to call the layby or not is a decision to be taken before the stage, not as you are competing. On the stage against the clock is not the best environment in which to interpret & filter information in the notes. You will make much better decisions if you go through the notes and mark up what you will/will not call before the rally starts. Even using my own notes I make time to go through them and make everything clear before the rally starts. This can mean burning some midnight oil the night before the event but better to do that than make a bad, rushed, decision on the stage.

[Rallynavigator]

You are right in what you say. I have received the notes today for the Dukeries on the 8th June. Going through them tonight such information such as layby's etc will not be called. Looking back at the video from the Plains it was indecisive of me to call these. So lets see if it helps me as well as the driver.

[Rallynavigator]

Well the Dukeries is over for another year and unfortunately a retirement with a blown engine. The notes were working well up until the end if SS4 when we had to call it a day. The calling of layby's etc were not related to the driver and I just used them for my own reference. Much better idea to do this as I feel maybe a distraction for the driver.
Congratulations to John O'Gorman and David Millard for there outstanding 1st in Class the weekend. Well done lads